Conversations on Hillary and Obama

Don't underestimate Hillary, says Rich Lowery on RealClearPolitics--even if you don't support her.

"Obama has generated a lot of excitement. Maybe he will end up swamping Clinton, or she'll be done in by some unforeseeable issue or gaffe, or her high negatives will convince Democrats that someone else is a safer bet to get elected next year...."

In the conservative political environment (see what RuPaul thinks...) of the Democratic Party circa 2007, it will take more than waiting for Hillary to make a mistake! (She's already getting briefings from the State Department....) South Carolina is important... If Obama is to distinguish himself, he has to take on Clintonism--as he started to do with his response in the YouTube/CNN debate to the question about meeting with leaders of countrys on the Clinton-Bush non-grata list... Taking on the Dem complicity in the very bad foreign policiy... And then what happened?

Well, for starters, Obama said he'd like to pull our meager volunteer troops from Iraq and redeploy them to Pakistan and Afganistan.... (uhh, isn't this where I came in?....). The Philadelphia Inquirer runs a screaming headline "Obama Vows to Hunt Down Terrorists" for Nedra Pickler's AP article... Tough Talk (to make up for Obama's "mistake" in the YouTube/CNN debate for advocating diplomacy with "rogue nations" (read: countries that the US government doesn't control....) as described in Obama Gets Tough by Liz Halloran for US News & World Report...

And how are THEY (Obama and Clinton) doing with black voters? There's an interesting dialogue between Francis L. Holland and Gwen about whether black voters will support Obama.

Gwen says: As long as the conversation gets controlled by the establishment and the pundits, Clintononism reigns....

Holland replies: It's up to Obama to convince Black people that he can win or that they should vote for him in order to increase his chances of becoming vice president of the United States....

A good black candidate is an isllusion: Eugene Robinson speaks...

Lenora Fulani wants more debate...

Newt Gingrich thinks there'll be a Clinton/Obama ticket (no need to speculate about who's on first in that arrangement....)

Andrew Sullivan writes in The Atlantic: The choice between Clinton and Obama is the choice between a defensive crouch and a confident engagement....

Richard Morse (a Clinton Democrat) on Huffington Post says: Frankly, if the only way the Democrats can win the White House is by having an Iraq disaster then, as a population, we're f**ked....

Well, aren't we "f**ked" anyway? Unless..........??????

Andrew Golis on TPMCafe says there's a bit of Clintonian political defensiveness among Boomers...

And just to check in on New York politics for a minute, check out the Daily News article: However, this "scandal" (Gov. Spitzer got caught red-handed in his pursuit of Total Control) is not Nixonian, but rather Clintonian: inept and ill-advised (but not illegal) behavior has emboldened critics and distracted the public from the merits of a policy agenda that the majority of the electorate supports....

The New York Times, ever the Clinton appologist, puts it all together......

And from Black Agenda on MediaChannel in the The Black masses have not undergone any political sea change; they have simply been abandoned by their representatives, who have been suborned or terrorized by money and concentrated media and lobby power. Corporations have embraced “diversity” as a weapon....

Let's think about this....
Nancy

TODAY'S NEWS HEADLINES for INDEPENDENT VOTERS

`Anxious Xers,' `Angry Independents' (Bloomberg.com)
It's Richardson and Thompson among indies in Iowa (Taegan Goddard's Political Wire)
Richardson Watch (Free New Mexican)
Rudy's rude (Slate)
McCain can't win for losing... (The Citizen of Laconia NH)
YouTube luring more Repubs (The Trail - Washington Post blog)
"Presidential moment" or "Bush-Cheney Lite"? (By Dick Morris-RealClearPolitics)
Do blacks believe Obama can make it? (Francis L. Holland Blog)
Obama stands by diplomacy view in Dallas (Gromer Jeffers-Dallas Morning News)
Obama tied with Clinton in New Hampshire (The Swamp - Chicago Tribune)
Clinton cautious, Obama unsettling (Spokesman Review)
50 years ago today: A McCarthy-free morning in America (Capital Times - Madison)

Talk/Talk: Is There a Big Bopper in the House?

Every Sunday CUIP’s political director Jacqueline Salit and strategist and philosopher Fred Newman watch the political talk shows and discuss them. Here are excerpts from their dialogue on Sunday, July 29, 2007 after watching "The Chris Matthews Show”, "Meet the Press” and "The McLaughlin Group.”

Talk/Talk:

Salit: The lead story on every show was the Hillary/Obama fight at the CNN/YouTube debate and the follow-up rounds in the days after the debate. This is one description of what the fight was about: New vs. Old, continuity vs. change, war vs. anti-war. How would you define what the fight’s about?

Newman: Obama vs. Clinton/Bush.

Conversations on Independence

Cindy Sheehan will announce her Independent candidacy for Congress in San Francisco on August 6th. I read it on the Smirking Chimp...

Conversations on Independence

• Leapin' lizards, Batman! Where are the independent centrists?
• Weekly Standard on the weekly question of will Fred Thompson do it--and is Iowa John Edwards' turf?
• Obama girls and cleavage seem to be the Point and Controversy, but hopefully not forever...
• Skewiring the Chimp - is there any better compliment to the Smirking Chimp? P.S. - one reason the polls show Hillary effective among independents is because she does the dirty... Not exactly a fatal attraction.... (Call me, Craig Faanes!)

TODAY'S NEWS HEADLINES for INDEPENDENT VOTERS

• Rasmussen Reports: public response to Obama/Clinton scuffle over diplomacy and who's on top on national security )
• Could the Dems lose?...(Boston Globe)
• The CBC/Fox debate controversy (District Chronicles)
• Politics and poverty: rhetoric and platforms (Cincinnati Post)
• Well, ok, maybe Obama does have hope.... (Sylvester Brown Jr., St. Louis Post Dispatch)
• And then again, maybe not..... (Nedra Pickler, AP, Centre Daily - PA)
• Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, to General Spitzer (FindLaw)

TODAY'S NEWS HEADLINES for INDEPENDENT VOTERS

• It's time to demand pols do the right thing (Lansing State Journal)
• Tips from Kinky's camp to Bloomberg's (By: Laureen Oliver - Politico)
• Diplomacy: Obama has advantage over Hillary with black voters (Chicago Sun Times)
• Utah: Voters moving left and independent in Salt Lake (Deseret News)
• Oregon: Look for ballot initiatives from the right (KGW Northwest News Channel 8)

TODAY'S NEWS HEADLINES for INDEPENDENT VOTERS

• Urban League forum (The Associated Press, News Leader)

• NEW HAMPSHIRE: Paul Hodes endorses Obama, will independents follow?... (Chris Cillizza-Washington Post)

• PENNSYLVANIA: Watch your independent back in Oil City (The Derrick)

• OHIO: Who's an independent??? (Athens Messenger)

TODAY'S NEWS HEADLINES for INDEPENDENT VOTERS

• Black voters don't have much of a choice (By Jo Mannies-St. Louis Post Dispatch) Watch the video here... And here's another article from Fox News St. Louis...
• Lenora Fulani calls for full debate in New York (Amsterdam News)
• The 'Death Star' of McCain's campaign (by Mark Silva- The Swamp - Chicago Tribune blog)
• Bloomberg at Urban League conference - support for teacher merit pay (Washington Post)

TODAY'S NEWS HEADLINES for INDEPENDENT VOTERS

• California - who is supporting independent redistricting and who isn't (LA Weekly)

• Mike's got a brand new bloom

• Bloomberg captures the Urban League forum, and the St. Louis Post Dispatch captures The Bloomberg Story...(By Jo Mannies-POST-DISPATCH)

• Listen to Obama's South Carolina Radio Ad

• Obama reacts to Clinton (Boston Globe)

HanksterTube!

Are you an independent voter with something to say? Send The Hankster your video or your comments and I'll post them! You can still see my video invitation at HanksterTube! Be sure to see Jaime from Teluride, Colorado...

TODAY'S NEWS HEADLINES for INDEPENDENT VOTERS

• More on the YouTube/CNN debate: * John Edwards reached independents on health care (Forbes) * Obama is black enough, but is he anti-Clintonian enough? (Weekly Standard) * S.C. blacks don't want to see fewer candidates in the debates (NPR from SC)

• Urban League forum this week in St. Louis: * Bloomberg to address luncheon, candidates in forum tonight (St. Louis Dispatch) * The Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton Thursday on whether the black vote will be taken for granted and whether the Pope is Catholic (Columbia Tribune )

• South Carolina: * Obama hits radio waves today(Pioneer Times Journal ) * Black leaders see top-tier contest (CNN Washington Bureau)

Conversations on Independence

Read Joe Gandleman's post Are Bloggers Merely Bullies With Computers on The Moderate Voice. It goes a long way toward the kind of discourse we need in politics.

And... I hafta say -- I LIKE Mirror on America. Maybe it's the rakish photo of WEB DuBois, or maybe the link to the Sports Illustrated article about Barry Bonds and Hank Aaron. Maybe it's that I miss canvassing for independent voters' signatures in a black sea of hot asphalt at this time of the season (petitioning)... Ahh, The Season: It's hot, it's July, I knock on an independent voter's door, I ask for a signature... They invite me in for a bottle of water... The Game is on.... I have to tear myself away to go to the next door!... Maybe it's something I learned from Fred Newman about life and baseball. Call me crazy, but I just hafta say --- I LIKE Barry Bonds.... and I like Hank Aaron too... Smart. Independent. Anyway, I have to take a shower... back to the blog: Check it out!

HanksterTube!

How did you think the candidates did last night on the YouTube/CNN debate answering questions from ordinary voters? What was your favorite question? What question would you have asked? Oh, wait! You can still ask a question! Send The Hankster your video or your comments and I'll post them! You can still see my video invitation at HanksterTube!

UPDATED: 7/24/07 Be sure to see Jaime from Teluride, Colorado

TODAY'S NEWS HEADLINES for INDEPENDENT VOTERS

• Who won the YouTube/CNN debate last night? The voters! Substance overcomes novelty (Chicago Tribune) * Debate puts voters onstage (Myrtle Beach Online) * YouTube steals the Dem debate (San Francisco Chronicle) * YouTube Questions Take a Different Tack (The Associated Press-Washington Post) * Format upstages candidates (The State - Charleston) * Obama, Clinton clash in YouTube debate (Reuters)

• Harri Poll: Americans would consider an Independent for President (Digital50.com) * Bloomberg Boosts Democrats' Fortunes In Florida, Quinnipiac University Poll Finds; McCain Fades In Republican Primary Race (Quinnipiac from The Moderate Voice) * Poll: Bloomberg bid could help Clinton in Florida (Miami Herald) * Giuliani holds lead in Florida, poll finds (Tallahassee Democrat)

• It's Independent Time. Do you know where your hot dog stand is? (Ballot Access News)

Independents Are Watching

Let's see what develops at the YouTube/CNN debate tonight!

Watch, comment....



As an independent, you get used to seeing things shut down during an election season. The closer to the election, the more the Dems scream that any vote for a Repub is tantamount to a vote for the Devil, and any vote for a third-party candidate (and there have been more and more of them....) is also tantamount to a vote for the Devil by way of not voting for the Dem... You know the drill.



So an interesting development in the 2008 campaign: Billary and Edwards The Populist seem to think that cutting out anti-war and insurgent candidates like Mike Gravel, Dennis Kucinich and Bill Richardson 17 months out will bring out their natural abilities to lead the country in a more Democratic direction.



Howard Dean got an earfull on that from voters...





Watch the YouTube/CNN debate and email The Hankster with your comments for publication on Tuesday.

TODAY'S NEWS HEADLINES for INDEPENDENT VOTERS

• Debate site: Diversity at last...
• Debate surrogates go after Clintonism
• Clinton Obama Clinton Obama polls
• Eliminate political affiliations in Newark